Hypocrisy In The Order Of Nine Angles

This topic has been discussed before, with mixed feelings and opinions being offered by many, and ultimately nothing more has been producing other than that which seems to be that old concept of “Do as I say, Not as I do“, or “This is ok for me to do, but shame on you for doing the same.” Now, I am not so petty as to name names, nor do I seek to cause strife and drama, but this stunning level of hypocrisy must be addressed, and I refuse to allow the greater public simply bury their heads in the sand and pretend that nothing illogical is taking place within the modern ONA continuum. I will share a brief conversation I had in the past days, omitting the names of my accusers, frankly because I am becoming weary of these upstart neophytes attempting to make a public name for themselves by way of attacking the name I have established for myself over years of time, affiliations, collaborations, and hundreds of pages of articles published.

I posted upon an ONA Youtube Video

Massive Order of Nine Angles Collection https://www.digitalsellz.com/p/MTQzNjc

This Order of Nine Angles collection (including Bealuwes Gast and Myndsquilver) has more than 400 PDF files divided into 45 ONA categories, (for example Translations, Numinous Way, Interviews, Collections, Hagur, Culling, et al).

A folder containing a Stargame program which can be ran on Windows computers which is accompanied by 6 PDFs pertaining to the Stargame.

A folder containing 27 original ONA audio files (mp3) including the 1991 and 1997 versions of The Self Immolation Right.

A folder containing 30 Chants (mp3) along with 4 PDFs pertaining to ONA Chants.

A folder containing several versions and resolutions of The Sinister Tarot (mostly jpg) and a few PDFs pertaining to ONA Tarot.

A folder containing 67 html links, many of which are now outdated, but not all, and the collection remains a testament to the ONA web presence over the past decade?

Average Cowardly ONA Fake Account #1

D. M. Hutchins All these things are available online for free. Why are you spamming this on every O9A video? Also, ‘Bealuwes Gast’ is nothing more than a cheap forgery and is of zero worth to any serious practitioner.

[NOTE] The link to the material in question was posted on five, possibly six, of the countless hundreds of ONA videos on Youtube.

Thus I did reply

I’m sorry that my post hurt your feelings ‘Average Cowardly ONA Fake Account #1’. You are welcome to comb the internet and individually track down and download each and every one of the 600+ files in this package, if you would like to do so. The price is not for the content itself, which is indeed freely available. The price is paid in order to obtain this massive amount of content all at once, effortlessly, rather than spending hours a day, for months or years, tracking down each individual file. In the future I will try to post in such a manner that your delicate sensibilities are taken into consideration. Good day.

Average Cowardly ONA Fake Account #2

D. M. Hutchins She asked why you were spamming it on every ONA video. It’s clear what it’s for. It’s just embarrassing no doubt seeing you paste it everywhere. Also, the whole ‘oh are you triggered?’ response is pretty pathetic. Reported for unwanted commercial content and spam.

Average Cowardly ONA Fake Account #1

‘Average Cowardly ONA Fake Account #2’ LOL good idea. Same here.

[NOTE] So its now a good idea to abuse the TOS of any given network, to have material you don’t like removed from everyones sight… ONA is openly advocating censorship of ideals and practices they dislike, further proving the success of this liberal Facebook generations “wheres my safe space” mentality…

And thus I replied once more

For you kids to be super elite occult adept Order of Nine Angles sorcerers, you seem rather conflicted and emotionally unstable. I challenge both of you, William Orange and Siofra Crowley, to even name all of the countless hundreds of individuals having sold ONA materials across mail delivery and internet downloads, and for the past decade(s), and I challenge you to name the countless thousands of materials they have produced. You see, its quite astronomical, the sheer volume of ONA materials now available, which only makes it a more pointed and evident FACT to know that I, D.M. Hutchins of Nexion Nine Thirteen possess exclusive rights to your attention, as you are happy to ignore ALL others selling the same service, and focus intently upon my products alone. I will note also that I alone provide ALL of my personally written works in both free digital and paid print formats, providing my audience with the option to buy. More than 90% of writers and composers within ONA ransom all of their works for monetary payment, making their spiritless and material intentions quite obvious. This is not to mention that the ONA prints which I have introduced to the modern circulation were not yet available in print format, and thus you still have the free digital option to not do business with me, which makes your focus upon me all the more curious. I’ll have you know that my conscience is clear and my personal standard maintained. As for reporting me to Google for “spam”, good luck with that. I’m sure someone in a cubical somewhere will have their day absolutely ruined when they see that I posted about ONA materials on a Youtube video about ONA materials, which video has comments turned on, for that specific purpose… Good day to you both.


And so…?

And so it is abundantly clear that nearly anyone associated with the Order of Nine Angles can sell just about anything and for any price, and no one will say a single word. However, despite the fact that N913 is the first in recorded ONA history to elect the permanent standard of producing all of our materials in both free and paid versions (not to mention that N913 has the lowest prices for my printed materials in ONA history as well), yet N913 generally, and D.M. Hutchins specifically, are attacked, harassed, and falsely accused, and reported to Google for “spam” while my accusers willfully ignore the fact that most ONA materials currently in circulation are ONLY available in paid versions. Just try asking those Vampire guys for their works in free format. Ask that ‘lets cut ourselves’ nexion for their works free of charge. Lets ask our British and English nexions to offer free PDFs for every printed book just like Nexion Nine Thirteen does, or suggest that they charge only $5 or $10 for their printed books like Nexion Nine Thirteen does… You’d very likely not even get a reply from any of them, but you’ll absolutely get a notice when they produce another bunch of the same old stuff with a new $20 to $30 price tag on it. And, while I have a huge amount of respect for THEM, are they serious when asking for hundreds and thousands of dollars for their prints, and if so, why is everyone having a fit when I charge $5 or $10 for something which is also free, but THEM are not even mentioned? Like I said above, N913 seems to have exclusive rights to the ONAs attention for now. So basically the bulk of the ONA is ransoming their materials for monetary payments, while I, D.M. Hutchins of Nexion Nine Thirteen, am, and always have, openly given my own work away for free (because our goals are not based in the material or monetary as are the ONAs in general). Obviously some of you out there have some things to work out, or at least make a logical case against N913 productions, which you have not.

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48 thoughts on “Hypocrisy In The Order Of Nine Angles

    • I addressed your concerns in the provided article. There are countless videos on Youtube which pertain to the Order of Nine Angles, hundreds! I shared the link in question on no more than five or six videos. If I have to break it down for you, I have shared my link on less than 1% of the relevant videos, which you and several others are exaggerating that I have posted said link on 100% of the videos pertaining to ONA. Thats quite an embellishment, Anna, you must admit. Personally I think it damaged the reputation of many claiming to be ONA when I announced to the public that all of Nexion Nine Thirteen publications would be offered in both free and paid versions, which in itself would have been fine, only I took it a step further and requested that all the ONA follow suit in order to freely spread our content, and from that point on every publisher of ONA materials who did not oblige was openly demonstrated that they were only in it for the money each time they refused to produce a free PDF alongside their print productions, which demonstrated that their productions held no prowess, no genuine alchemy, and no spirituality within their claims to the Numen and/or acausal energies. I am open to debate on this topic, but all the evidence seem to be on my side of the fence.

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  1. Also, answer me this. Is there anywhere else, or anyone else, other than myself at https://www.digitalsellz.com/p/MTQzNjc offering more than 600+ ONA files in a single download? Is there any possible way to obtain this MUCH content for as little as $6, in a 30 second download? No, there isn’t.

    I challenge anyone to observe my list of material, and then track down every single pdf, every single chant, every single song, every single tarot, and every single html file, or the Stargame program. Even if they tried the could not, because my package contains ONA content that is no longer in public circulation, other than my package.

    And, I would note that anyone gathering these files from the net are getting them second hand, and possibly altered by any number of people, however, my package was collected directly from Chole, Ra, L316, ABG, and countless others whom I interacted with personally and obtained this material first hand from the whose who of the Order of Nine Angles over the past seven or eight years. You were there, Anna, and you know this to be true.

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    • Darryl, I’m not saying your collection is of no value. I’m only saying that your persistent self promotion might annoy others. I observed you on Facebook and you were spamming every possible discussion thread with it.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Thats another rather amusing embellishment, Anna. Every possible thread you say? I’m quite certain you intended to say “in my own groups and on my own profile”, which I created for that specific purpose, which was to promote my books and digital downloads, and open them to public discussion? Well sure I did, lol, because that was very purpose of the group/profile. Its called advertising and/or marketing, and it was quite a successful campaign in fact.

        The ONA in general doesn’t like it very much though, because they seek to limit discussion (in order to promote their opinions as being the only ones visible opinions on that medium) and you my notice that 99% of ONA content on the web has commenting blocked as if they are afraid to, or unable to, answer basic questions pertaining to their beliefs (or its yet another method of forcing people to buy their books because they are only after money).

        In truth I despise Facebook, and I only reactivate that account once or twice a year, and usually for less than a month before the hubris becomes to much and I return to my writing. My biggest loath pertaining to Facebook are the thousand varieties of pseudo-occult wannabes with a thousand self attributed titles, and not one of them seem to know the first damn thing about the traditions they are claiming, which includes the Order of Nine Angles.

        There is a specific reason that I harp on this package and Myatt’s personal work, while rejecting 90% of the modern ONA. What reason is that? Simple. Have you ever been in a pitiful conversation with an idiot Laveyan Satanist who wouldn’t shut up, and so you bring the conversation to an abrupt end by asking them to define (or spell) Vamachara? I facepalmed for ten minutes the day I realized that I could do the exact same thing to people claiming ONA (a supposedly Hermetic Tradition) by asking them to name the Seven Hermetic Principles, or the Seven Alchemical transformations, or even the twelve zodiacal houses…

        Fact is, these people know shit about shit, and I have the cure. I present them with a massive amount of study material, on the fastest possible medium and cheapest possible price. I will give you 400+ ONA books for LESS than the price of ONE book from any other nexion. The ONA in general hates me because I have proven that their (90% of them) agenda is monetary and material in nature. In a word, mundane, and Magian.

        As I said before, what happened to willful debate and interaction. What a shame that ONA has taken to this young generations notion of “Safe Spaces”, the idea that criticism is hate speech, and the practice of banning or trolling people away when they disagree with you.

        Nine Thirteen represents that old-school ONA back when there were several rival clans all at the ready, willing and able to represent and explain their systems, and if you think that I annoy this new generation of ONA now, just wait until “D.M. Hutchins – A Numinous Way Vol. 2” comes out.

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        • You didn’t advertise it only on your profile but also on other people’s profiles and in other people’s groups. What pisses people off is your arrogance and your preaching attitude. Look into the mirror for once buddy.

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          • Perhaps you were unable to differentiate between my posting said materials, and when others shared my content on their own profiles, of their own accord? Such occurred on a daily basis. Many of the same profiles posted pictures of my books which they ordered, when they came in their mail. I even had a few nice reviews and high praises, though oddly you seem only to focus upon anything negative in some fruitless attempt to cast me in a bad light. Why is it that you possess such conformation bias that you would ignore all positive elements of my interactions with the public, and so exaggerate the slightest flaw or blemish?

            Also, if I did post ONA materials within groups, they were most certainly ONA groups, and if I posted ONA materials upon anothers profile, their profiles were primarily dedicated to ONA material beforehand. Thats called posting on topic. If you can make a valid case against posting on a thread and remaining on topic, I am willing to hear it, but I’m very curious what you might have to say.

            If the internet has become such a social justice warrior haven that even the ONA has adopted the “Safe space” concept, and to the extent that posting links to ONA information, on threads about information pertaining to the ONA, is now considered “spam” and “harassment”, I’m not certain that internet forums have any further use whatsoever.

            I mean just what exactly is the point in creating threads, if all you will accept or expect is that only those who already agree with you are welcome to participate? What then is there to talk about? How much you agree with one another? How much you love all saying the very same things, over and over, as your mindlessly agree with one another, day after day? I’ll pass on that and simply be that wrench thrown into the ONA gears of dogma and propaganda.

            Its not arrogance if you’re right in what you’re saying, and I’ll preach so long as I draw breath. My mirror is fine.

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            • I’m talking about you advertizing your stuff on other people’s profiles and in other people’s groups, not about others sharing your stuff. I’m sharing my blog only on my own profile. I’m not sharing it in ONA groups I’m part of even if my blogs are about the ONA. Relentless pimping your stuff can annoy others, especially if they aren’t fans of your writing. There is this saying: “When in someone’s lair…” Now if the owner of the group likes my blog and shares it himself, which happened a few times, then it’s something different. I might engage in cat fights on the forums and in comment section of my own blogs but when I comment on someone’s blog, I refrain from endless debates. This is how I roll and somehow, apart from a few jerks, I don’t have problems with Niners in general. I also never found my comments deleted.

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              • Something is wrong with your thinking, Anna… If other peoples profiles and groups, are focused upon ONA content, and there are already countless members buying, selling, and sharing, ONA materials, why is it suddenly a horrible offense when I join in and do the same? If you will exaggerate my alleged offense to this extent, I would very much like to see a list of names and their individual testimony as to my ravaging their sensibilities by way of providing what is possibly largest and most affordable ONA resource on the net. When you get done gathering no one to testify against me, how about you reassess that accusation that I am arrogant, and then re-read your above statement which basically states; “Here’s what I do and you should do it like me”. But I’m the arrogant one? Riiiight.

                So your blog gets shared a few times, here and there? I’d be impressed if not for the fact that when I spent a little time on Facebook at all, every other thing I posted got shared by 10 or more people, my poetry, my essays, my books, my merch… Ive been on Facebook and had to log out because I was getting so many notices and PMs that it was just notice, notice, notice, notice, notice. I turned down 50+ Friend request a day, and despite this false image of my person which some of you are attempting to sell the public, my message box was filled with people telling me how much they loved my books, and thanking me for pricing them reasonably unlike the rest of the ONA. If you think I have less than a crystal clear awareness of whats what, you are fooling yourself. People actually like me. There are however those five individuals who despise me, three of which are young upstarts unable to make a name for themselves other than to maintain a constant drama with me, regardless of the lies they have to tell, or the childish show they have to put on in order to be noticed by inadvertence of my name. And I sure hope that they impress someone, because I just laugh at them and remember how stupid I was back in my twenties, when I thought I had it all figured out… The other two I take very seriously, and recognize them as the adept sorcerers that they are, but unlike the kids I do not have to beg for their attention, nor even ask. They’ve had an eye on me for years, and for damn good reason. Can you tell me why? No, you cannot.

                If you never have problems with people, and no one is ever offended by your statements, and your comments are never removed, you certainly must have mastered the art of kissing ass, which I refuse to do. I’d sooner die. I can and will be civil, but I call bullshit where I see it, no fucks given. Nothing is more important than the truth, and truth come not by instruction, but by study and introspection, not blind adherence no indoctrination.

                That saying “When in someone’s lair…” its a Laveyan platitude, and also fuck Anton LaVey (Howard Levey), and no, no the man didn’t possess a PhD in any field of study whatsoever. What on Earth gave you the idea that I am concerned with CoS literature whatsoever?

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  2. I’m not “bitching”, though people often say as much due to my propensity to publicly address issues which they’d rather not be openly valuated by independent thinkers. I make people think and come to conclusions of their own, which jerks the rug out from under those sorcerers who would enjoy those same individuals not even considering those ideals until such time as those sorcerers publish some article telling them what to think (reading list et al) if they want to remain in the ‘modern’ ONA club. My public image is harassed and my character slandered in an attempt to cause potential ONA subordinates from taking me seriously, as I force people to thinking for themselves as I have asked them to, or to flee into the “Safe Spaces”. Thats not martyrdom, its passion, its purpose, and its evident to all who have access to the Numen, and seek to live Numinously.

    If you would state that I am “playing a martyrdom card” I would ask you to provide evidence of such. Where do you draw the line between telling the truth, and selling ones own martyrdom, and by what metric, and in comparison to what default position? I’ll accept your criticism if you can make a valid case for it. You have my ear, however, that which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. Please make your case.

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  3. Methinks you have may have misunderstood the purpose of the document titled “Primary O9A Sources”. It is aimed at non-O9A folk who might be interested – academically or otherwise – in or curious about the O9A and in contemporary Western esotericism (as esotericism has been defined by academics).

    It is not aimed at those who are already O9A, has no authority whatsoever, does not claim to be authoritative, and simply amounts to one person’s “recommended reading list” of primary O9A source material. Those reading such recommended O9A material will find all of your points – such as about O9A individual judgment and individual pathei mathos being the essence of the O9A – in the texts mentioned.

    For example, the 1460 page “Complete Guide” contains texts such as “Notes On The Esoteric Learning Presenced Through Pathei-Mathos” – where it is mentioned that “The term pathei-mathos expresses the essence of the esoteric ethos of the Order of Nine Angles: the personal learning, by individuals, that often results from consciously undertaking practical exeatic experiences conventionally described as both ‘numinous’ and ‘sinister’.” It also contains the texts “Authority, Learning, and Culture, In The Sinister Tradition Of The Order of Nine Angles” and “The Authority Of Individual Judgement – Interpretation And Meaning”.

    The recommended text “The Joy of the Sinister” quotes from the Satanic Letters of Stephen Brown (also on recommended reading list) which states “Each individual must learn for themselves – this is the crux. No one can do it for them. The essence, born via experiences, cannot even be taught – it must be experienced.”

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    • I will begin by thanking you for your time and comment, however, I do believe that your statements here have only strengthened my original position, and with all due respect, I would ask you to take note that the tactic of posting this reply on the wrong thread (whereby observers of my views will not witness our dialog), has not escaped my notice. I will be keeping detailed text and photo records of this conversation such that I can relocate it to the proper article when we have concluded our discussion.

      (1) I fully understand the ‘purpose’ of the article “Primary O9A Sources”, and frankly I interpret your statement that ‘I have misunderstood the article’ as a deflection of my pointed questions as to the legitimacy and authority of said articles claims. I can, if I must, reproduce the questions here as well, making a second deflection most obvious. (a) In what manner has anyone the authority to determine what is primary for another, (b) in what manner could anyone make a logical case for gaining insight into ancient gnosis by way of adhering to modern paradigms which contradict it, (c) and if you are so determined to cause mundanes to believe that ONA is an academic field, or that academics can or have in some way validated ONA, might you explain the contradiction expressed when you rebuking many for lacking academic achievements, while on the other hand rebuking others for being mindless slaves to the outcome based indoctrination programs of the Nation State?

      I would kindly ask that you make up your mind exactly which lie you are attempting to sell by answering questions 1a, 1b, and 1c, though I do believe that I have already refuted them all.

      (2) (a) Your second paragraph begs several more questions than it pretends to answer. You cannot state that the reading list in question is “only for those who are not ‘already ONA'” unless you can produce and justify a universal standard by which one either is, or is not, ONA. Your article offers nothing in regard to how you are conducting that assessment, and (b) when you announce to the public that something, that anything, is primary for them, you are indeed assuming authority (as of yet unexplained or substantiated) and to know what the your audiences agendas are, and because you claim that your target audience are those unfamiliar with ONA, you have inadvertently admitted that you couldn’t possibly possess that information, and (c) I am ONA and yet your list of primaries and underhanded suggestions do not representing my agenda, neither my primaries, whatsoever. (d) The tone of the article in question is strict and matter-of-fact and in rather striking juxtapose to your now very much softer claim that article was merely a kindhearted suggestion or recommendation for anyone interested, and I firmly believe that the matter-of-fact attitude would have been maintained if not for my calling attention to the verisimilitude of said articles claims. (e) And finally, suggesting that adhering to your reading list would answer all of my questions, has is no way answered even one of my questions. I doubt that you would recommend a book your hadn’t read, and so assuming that you possess all of the knowledge contained in said reading list, I see no reason that you couldn’t simply answer my questions publicly on this medium in real time, which oddly you, and all the others seem unwilling, or unable, to do.

      (3) Again, with all due respect and attempted civility, your third paragraph is absolute nonsense. (a) The number of pages in a book in no way testify to that books contents or the merits of those contents, which makes your statement in that regard an utter non sequitur. (b) Pathei-Mathos is Greek in concept and language, and predates ONA by more than 1,000 years. If I pick a large Latin word from 1500 years ago and claim it as my own, will I win this debate by default? (c) Pathei-Mathos itself dose not “often” result from consciously undertaking practical exeatic experiences, it ONLY results from consciously undertaking practical exeatic experiences, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the ONA other than modern ONA having adopted that particular preexisting concept, and underhandedly claiming that it represent the “ONA Ethos”, which as I said but a moment ago, didn’t even exist until much, much later. This retcon is most obvious. (d) Exeatic experience is not described (conventionally or otherwise) as both numinous and sinister. Exeatic experience and Pathei-Mathos lead to self actualization and the elevating ones consciousness unto the point of Higher Will, but the Will of the individuals intentions mark them as EITHER Numinous or Sinister, as Magicians or Sorcerers, not both. (e) The last sentence of your third paragraph is nonsensical, as ‘personal judgement’ and ‘external authority’ are absolutely incompatible. One cannot exist in both states of dominion and adherence simultaneously. Render unto Cesar…

      (4) Your entire forth paragraph renders this whole discussion in my favor, and explains the inappropriate and unsubstantiated nature of the original article “Primary O9A Sources”.

      I look forward to your reply (and placing it upon the proper thread).

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      • The simple fact is that the “reading list” was directed at those who write about or who might be interested in studying the O9A, especially academics, and was published following some correspondence with a particular academic and discussions elsewhere regarding the need for researchers to use primary not secondary sources.

        A suggested reading list is just a suggested reading list compiled by one person in response to questions about “primary sources”. It has no “authority” and neither suggests nor implies anything about the nature of the O9A, merely allowing others to find and read material where O9A theory and practice is written about.

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        • No, there is nothing simple about this whatsoever. If this were simple you may have attempted to answer at least one of the thirteen very specific questions I presented you with, or the several more I’ll be presenting in this post, but as always you are either unwilling or unable to do so, lest your true agenda be revealed. Fortunately, our exchange has not been completely fruitless, due to the fact that your consistent avoidance of my questions has inadvertently answered them, and serves as evidence of my initial position pertaining to your motives.

          “I’m in correspondence with an academic”

          Ok, so? You say that as though such were meaningful in any regard. Tell me, if suddenly all notable universities were to begin offering a class on ONA, and simultaneously the top fifty scholars of our age were all to write a book about ONA, so what? Who or what would that validate? Who exactly would be impressed and why?

          As I see it, you could take all the Homo Hubris on Earth and have their outcome based indoctrination systems program them with every ONAism platitude ever written, and they’d all remain equally as mundane, inexperienced, dwelling in base consciousness, utterly absent alchemical insight, devoid of Numinous understanding, and graduating with goofy smiles as they tote meaningless scrolls across a stage, pronouncing all the abstractions having replaced their common sense and potential for intellectual independence.

          Of course I recognize the rhetorical nature of this question, as you will undoubtedly ignore it… though I ask anyway, on behalf of others who now see it, and who will continue to see it, and when they forget, I will remind them again, and so, while we are at this game where I ask simple questions and you hide from them, let us add;

          (1) How is it that you suppose there is a “need” for academics to research ONA?
          (2) By what standard are you judging ONA sources to be either “Primary” or “Secondary”?
          (3) Who, if anyone, agrees with you?
          (4) Are you able to produce a list of all the Primary ONA Sources and all Secondary ONA Sources?

          I can’t think of a single ONA author who’d bow down to you and accept the status of being a “Secondary ONA Source”, and even in the event that you have convinced one or more academics that this hallucination of yours in any way reflects how ONA actually functions, it only further demonstrates the gullibility of those Nation State indoctrinated stooges you are attempting to manipulate, not to mention the fact that convincing mundanes of your lies, in no way alters the FACT that ONA is primarily comprised of free alchemist who are immune to your dogma and propaganda. I mean sure, you have the kids that cut themselves, those obsessed with pornography, and a few even think they are vampires, but if you wade through all the nonsense and pay attention to the undeniable fact that ONA includes some rather mature and evolutionary content such as that produced by L316, Temple of THEM, ADM, Fleming, and Nexion Nine Thirteen, well, this image you are attempting to sell these academics, which just so happens to omit all of our names and productions from your personal self centered version of ONA history… is frankly laughable.

          I write about ONA. I have lived an extremely exeatic life, abandoning society proper at the age of fourteen. I held such a standard for well over a decade before I ever heard of ONA. At this point in time I have been involved with ONA for nearly eight years. Oddly though, you aren’t bringing your academic friends to discus ONA with me. Now why is that? I’ll tell you why, because I have no interest in supporting this illusion you are selling, and I’d do this pesky thing called telling the truth instead.

          Prove me wrong and invite me to participate in the next “scholarly” publication of your alleged academics. I bet you won’t.

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          • You wrote: {quote} If this were simple you may have attempted to answer at least one of the thirteen very specific questions I presented {/quote}

            Such questions and your subsequent questions – and your ad hominems – are irrelevant because it’s just “a personal recommended reading list”. One compiled by an actual person who lives in Shropshire, England and one that grew out of some personal correspondence. A personal reading list is just a personal reading list. No more, no less.

            Anyone – be they internet anonymous, academic, or otherwise – is free to compile their own “personal recommended reading list” of O9A material. Some already have, for example Professor Monette, in his chapter on the ONA, provides his own reading list of ONA material; as did Senholt in presenting his paper at the 2009 academic conference on modern satanism. No list has precedence over any other, none are or can be “authoritative” because they’re all just “personal recommended reading lists.”

            Why are you trying to make such a big thing out of a personal reading list?

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            • Good Lady, an ad hominem attack occurs when someone ignores your statements and rather than addressing them insults your personal character. That isn’t what happened between us. I refuted your statements, and then I insulted your character, thus no ad hominem occurred. I would thank you to refrain from lecturing me pertaining to academics until such time as you able to demonstrate at minimum a high school debate team requisite logical fallacy recognition.

              If your ‘personal suggestions’ pertaining to reading list are indeed just that, you’d have no right by which to proclaim any given text primary or secondary, especially while consistently refusing to announce the standard or methods by which these valuations were determined, or by whom. Let us end this childish game of semantics. State clearly your standard and the authority by which it is enforced, or withdraw your distorted and whitewashed version of what the Order of Nine Angles is, has been, and is going to be.

              If, as you say, anyones opinion is as authoritative as any others pertaining to what is primary and/or secondary pertaining to ONA MSS, you would then agree that my own personal list, which elects as primary all of that content which your list omits, is equally as valid as your own? Such would be outrageously illogical as the two list so drastically conflict, but then, thats the corner your attitude has painted you in to…

              For the record, I’m not trying to do anything. I’ve done it. Thank you for your time.

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              • I am rather reminded of a recent conversation with a dear friend of mine who works as an ER doctor. She confided that when she gets home all she wants to do is be silent, alone, and thus able to recall in peace the events of her day. To thus place into perspective the trauma, the injuries, the patient or patients who died while in her care even though she had done all she could do, and sometimes more. But all her then partner wanted to do on her return to their condo was talk and complain about her own office day, admitting as that doctor did that such complaints – though so very human, so natural – seemed, at least to her, so very trivial.

                Thus do we – exchanging messages here – seem to belong to different worlds. Is there therefore anything meaningful for us to say here? Perhaps not.

                Liked by 1 person

                • Oh but perhaps there most certainly is something for us to talk about, you just aren’t willing to publicly address my concerns, because in so doing your true agenda would be made know to those you are attempting to manipulate. It is therefore that you have instead back peddled, avoided questions, and told stories about your friends relationship issues… It is cute though, that even when attempting to manipulate me (which you have not), you continue to demonstrate that you are yet the one trick pony, as I have questioned your right to conduct valuations on behalf others, and you can only return by forcing your valuations upon my question, in the guise of questioning the meaning of of a conversation which pertains to the meaning of such questions. You aren’t nearly as clever as you seem to believe. I see you.

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                • @ Wyrdsister Your reply shows that you have a very faint idea about the work of a doctor or a nurse. It often revolves around trivial problems (like some patient not being able to poop) and dealing with other people’s bullshit.

                  I work in the nursing home for the elderly. You have to be pretty thick skinned because you not only have to observe the people you cared for dying but you often have to wash the corpse and change the dead person’s diaper. Then you have to pass the corpse over to the funeral home or service (dunno how you call that in English). There are even more formalities to deal with if the family doesn’t give a fuck, which is often the case. There is no time for “wordless knowing” maybe apart from realization that there will come the time when you will be a total idiot in spite of all your education and you will piss or shit in your bed. That is on condition you live long enough. We even have one mountain climber there. Now she can’t even climb the toilet without help. C’est la vie.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • Well said, Anna. Many members of my family and associates are also nurse and/or Doctors. You hit the nail on the head. The line between the profound and the mundane is clearly draw for those who actually interact with death and dying rather than sitting around promoting PDFs about culling. I’ve lost count of the dead I have known, or even the manners in which they have died.

                    This is why upon incorporation of elements of ToTBL into my overall N913 philosophy, I readily adopted that valuation of dignified self termination between the ages fifty and sixty six. I’ll not willfully die shitting my bed while the flesh withers from my bones and my mind fades away. I’ll take up a sword and honor my ancestery. I’ll take hold of my honor, and when this carnations spark flickers out, it will damn sure set the Magian afire.

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                    • Sigh. You say this because the virtue of misericordia is alien to you. My grandmother cared for me when I was young. She wiped my ass, washed me and changed my diapers. When she got old, I did the same for her. I quite enjoy nursing. You are born feeble and you die feeble. Your life comes full circle. There are no mundanes, we will all turn to dust. You are as much detached from reality as those Inner ONA peeps.

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                  • Anna, as usual you interject polemically. I recalled a part of one conversation with a friend. Working in ER as a doctor is very different from working in some “care home” or on an ordinary hospital ward. Had you experience of working for at least a year in ER as a doctor or even as a nurse your comments might have some relevance. Have you such experience? If not, then you’re just making assumptions. Perhaps you might ask a Doctor with at least a year of ER experience whether or not the feeling of an ER doctor such as I recounted are familiar to them?

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  4. “I make people think and come to conclusions of their own…”

    Let’s say a few students during a biology class examine a fine piece of cow shit in order to determine the cow’s eating habits. Just when they are done writing their reports and drawing diagrams and just when they’ve packed their bags and are ready to go home, there arrives one students who’s late for the class. Hey buddies, what’s that? But this shit is fascinating. Let’s look into it. I’ll help you.

    Seriously, yet another PhD dissertation about the sinister bullshit? What you’re “explaining” everybody already knows except for maybe some idiots. It’s for you, not for others. You’re teaching no one, you’re making no revolution. Individual judgement, wisdom born from pathei mathos etc is the basic shit everyone already knows. You can write about it and debate it for ages and pages but you’re basically doing your homework now.

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    • I understand the point that you think you are making here, Anna… but it doesn’t pertain to the conversation between Miss Fake Account and I. Read between the lines. Thats not the nature of the debate we are having. However, because you have demonstrated interest, perhaps you will answer the questions I have asked?

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      • Your questions have already been answered. The stuff you’re debating now has already been discussed. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree with you. I just think you’re deluding yourself when you think you’re teaching and explaining the truth to others. As I wrote it’s a basic stuff everyone knows. Papa Myatt dropped out of university too.

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        • Yes “Papa Myatt” did drop out – seemed he preferred violence, crime, and activism to study – and a few years later (after being released from jail) he spent two years in a monastery studying theology as well as Greek and Latin. He then left the monastery to continue his life of activism, violence, and – presumably – crime.

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            • Re Liber Dabih. A now – IMO – outdated and incomplete compilation, albeit a useful one in its day. But kudos to he who compiled it, and kudos to him also for digitizing O9A works such as Naos, for without his efforts in that respect such works might have been consigned to the dustbin of history.

              Perhaps a new “Liber Dabih” is needed? Including as it should Myatt’s post-2011 letters and essays, his translations of the Corpus Hermetica, and especially his writings about his “philosophy of pathei mathos”.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Your reply is, as with everything you say, underhandedly dishonest.

                (1) Liber Dabih is not “incomplete” because there were never any intentions to present the collection as such, and to that degree the very title of the work is “Liber Dabih – SELECTED WORKS of David W. Myatt”… And I’m not placing SELECTED WORKS in all caps on my own behalf, that its who the title is presented in the book.

                (2) “he who completed it”… I’m sure you meant to say “THE TEMPLE OF THEM – Published by the Black Glyph Society – ONA Nexion (Australia), but you don’t much care to mention aloud the names of individuals or Nexion who challenge your views of the ONA, or challenge your alleged history of ONA, do you?

                (3) You have some nerve to even mention that “dustbin of history”. How much of ONAs development and evolution are you more than happy to see thus swept, and is their not a broom in thine own hand? Certainly you are not serious?

                (4) I would agree those other text merit inclusion, however, the goal is not, in my case, to collect and memorize the works of Myatt, but to be inspired toward new experience and perspective by those I have studied, yet as for those letters and essays there is that issue of the “Anton Long Effect” whereby countless individuals have used said name to have their ideals validated, and I see equal potential for anyone with the skill to emulate Myatts writing style to do the same with these supposed letters. I’m not claiming they are all fakes, I’m simply acknowledging the potential for forgery… What say you?

                Liked by 1 person

                • Yawn. Liber Dabih is outdated, and thus now incomplete. Years have passed. A person has changed, evolved. Plus, Liber Dabih – selected writings or otherwise – is all about Myatt. It may be a useful resource for those interested in Myatt’s past. That’s all. Yet again you make a fuss about nothing. You asked for my opinion about that work, and I gave it. Who cares who compiled it and why? Only those obsessed with a particular – often personal – agenda. Aeonically, Liber Dabih and its compiler, are irrelevant, just like you, me, Anna, et al.

                  That you et al apparently failed to understand my ER metaphor was perhaps only to be expected. So by all means continue as you are and believe. The ER world is real; we, here, are not.

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                  • Whoever can be trusted with very little, can also be trusted with much. Whoever is dishonest with very little is also dishonest with much. Every detail counts and, no matter our motivations, we are all real here.

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                  • Once again, you ignore every question I present you, and you wage further lies and deceptions. That Liber Dadih is all about Myatt disturbs you, and thus you deflect and pretend that I am making a big deal, while in reality the deal is that you have no use for Myatt’s Numinous Way as it contradicts that agenda of yours to sell these illusions of a certain ONA which never happened (equally hiding much of ONA that did happen).

                    Who cares who composed that Liber Dabih, or why? Well, obviously you do, as you refuse to even state their names, “The Temple of THEM”, and you’re damn right I have an agenda of my own. It is to expose your deception. And no, I am not aeonically irrelevant, nor Anna. Thats just another story you cant back up, and so you sell it to mundanes in order to justify yourself.

                    And can you get over this “If you are online you have no real world experience” bullshit? I had been in three covens and two street gangs before the internet ever became popular. How old are you, seriously? Late teens? Early twenties? lol. You have no idea what real experience Anna or I have. As always you are talking out of your ass…

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                    • Apparently you et al are still making the same two mistakes. Firstly, the fallacy of illicit transference. A few individuals who associate themselves with the ONA write polemics or (on purpose or otherwise) otherwise annoy some self-described ‘satanists’ or some ONA critic, or some Nazarene on a crusade, or someone claiming association with the ONA, and those persons then proceed to lambaste the ONA in general on the basis of those few individuals.

                      Secondly, forgetting about or – for whatever reason, disputatious or otherwise – ignoring the ONA principle of the authority of individual judgment: that no one ONA or claiming to be ONA can speak or write “on behalf of the Order of Nine Angles” so that their opinion about or their interpretation of matters ONA or about satanism or about whatever is just their personal opinion or interpretation and has no authority whatsoever. But instead of applying that ONA principle, there are “walls of text” from those aforementioned types of persons plus argumentum ad hominem and argumentum ad nauseam.

                      Thus does a particular scenario regarding the ONA repeat itself, via the internet, again as it has done for nigh on nine years.

                      The point of this my own “wall of text” is that your view, your opinion, your interpretation about and of matters ONA is just as valid as mine or those of the others who contribute to blogs such as the ‘wyrdsister’ one. None of us are “special” or have received some “revelation” or have more “insight” into ONA matters than others. Neither do we have some sort of “mission”. We all have our own reasons, rational or irrational, or our own agenda, for finding the ONA interesting and for writing about it. We all have our own, our individual, experiences – occult and/or otherwise – which make us who were are and which color our interpretation and perception of matters ONA and of the ONA itself.

                      All of which applies to everyone past and present, from “Anton Long” (be he one person or many) to Mr McD to that perennial interloper Anna C.

                      That’s all I have to say, here.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Perennial interloper. I’m afraid WeirdSister dear, that if you don’t cull me, you will have to put up with my presence till the end of your days. 🙂

                      I’ve never been attacking the ONA in general or Myatt. Certainly, you would wish that were the case but it isn’t and has never been. Your antics are so transparent you must work on them a little bit.

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        • I would be all too pleased if you were correct, Anna, however, I do not see that my questions have been answered at all, and in fact it would seem that they been avoided, and thereby inadvertently answering to my charges in the affirmative. What were those answers again? Also I would disagree that I am deluding myself.

          I know well what I am doing, as well ask they know their attempted deception, and for every paragraph of lies and false history they write, and every academic they deceive, which cast the ONA in a false light (a light in favor of themselves alone), I will write a page of truths, countering them.

          As for university, I believe anyone with any sense would drop out. There is hardly anything to be learned there, other than more completely contrived and fabricated histories, and the realization that the mediums upon which the artist would express themselves are hijacked and owned by those in political power such that (much like the ONA individuals in question) the truth is ignored in order to sell the lie they believe justifies their violations of Natural Law, such that they pursue academics to record such in the indoctrination books of those mundane universities… I am not fooled, I am not wasting my time, and I am not going away.

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          • The answers are in the MSS. You can search for them and use them in your debates, basically for your own sake so that you aren’t fooled. The priority of experience before education, wordless wisdom etc, it’s all there. Do you really think you’re enlightening anyone?

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            • I really think you continue to miss the point that I am making here. I’m not “offering enlightenment”, you are assuming that I am “offering enlightenment”, while in reality what I am doing is exposing a deception by which some would alter ONA history so as to omit elements which they dislike, and embellish their own contributions by orders of magnitude, via manipulation of mundane academics… which I have attempted to explain to you twice now. Its not my problem if you cannot see what I am addressing, and I reject your silly caricature of my person or my agenda.

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    • Yes I know RA and THEM are the same people, Anna, and that he/they used many other names as well. I spent quite a bit of time with THEM several years back, they edited my first book, and taught me many lessons, and I maintain unto this day the opinion that THEM had more of an impact upon ONA 2.0 than WSA352 ever could. THEM were hated very much, and still invoke heated debate as to the interpretation of ONA MSS and the proper application of ones self in practical deed.

      As for ‘Sinister Polemics’ I am not only familiar with that old blog, I have been the focus of many post therein, and you hit the nail on the head in further exposing that I have held their attention for some years, and that they have consistently attempted to cast my work and opinions in a negative and non-ONA light. There are many PDFs still around with articles originating from that blog, and one focused entirely upon myself and Ryan Fleming, whereas they basically begged the ONA in general to completely disregard us… and yet here I am, and Fleming as well. They were not at all successful, and neither will they be successful in this campaign.

      Thank you for the further evidence that for some time now these individuals with whom I debate are indeed guilty of selling a false representation of ONA history.

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    • I understood your context and replied in kind. Yes THEM left permanent scars upon the arrogance and self righteousness of the ONA elders, as do I. And you are correct that they will not be forgotten. I will remind everyone of L316 and THEM for as long as I draw breath. For all the pomp and materials on the net, and all the individuals claiming meaningless titles, it was the humble yet stern lectures of members of L316, THEM, and ToTBL, from whom I took the greatest information, and the most practical application of it, and further assisted me in properly understanding my exeatic life prior to ONA/ToTBL, and the contextualizing of exeatic experiences thereafter.

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      • I meant that the WyrdSister and Sinister Polemics were run by the same people.

        I understand your passion. I really do. I only think you’re too late for the biology cow shit class. It’s over now, only not for you. Dunno how to break it down to you.

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  5. [Anna]

    Sigh. You say this because the virtue of misericordia is alien to you. My grandmother cared for me when I was young. She wiped my ass, washed me and changed my diapers. When she got old, I did the same for her. I quite enjoy nursing. You are born feeble and you die feeble. Your life comes full circle.

    You always default to the “you don’t understand” position if ever anyone disagrees with you on something. I can see you point and yet disagree. I had a grandmother too for a time, and she cared for me as much, and I too returned the favor in my own way, though she was mundane, and she suffered needlessly for many years, only to die a mundane death. If thats what people want, fuck’em, let them have it, but I seek to die as passionately as I have lived. There will be witnesses, and the recounting of my deeds will conclude my contribution to Mortiklavis.

    [Anna]

    There are no mundanes, we will all turn to dust. You are as much detached from reality as those Inner ONA peeps.

    Now there you have revealed a genuine misunderstanding of mundanity, magery, and sorcery. All flesh are clay vessels and return to the dust, but it is that divine spark within that separates the mundane from the Numinous and the numinous from the sinister. The flesh and dust are not so important. In this regard I am more connected to reality than yourself.

    Like

  6. Pingback: The Dishonesty and Double-talk of WyrdSister (and All the ONA Hiding Behind False Accounts) | D. M. Hutchins

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